For more than 250 years, mathematicians have wondered if the Euler equations might sometimes fail to describe a fluids flow. Whether its paper, whether its plastic, can we reuse it, you know, extend its life? Featuring special guest Dr. Rebecca Taylor, Senior Lecturer of Economics at the University of Sydney. by John Stossel | May 5, 2020. In that case, it was the simple act of instead of automatically giving customers a straw with their drink, bringing the drink without a straw. Salt Marshes Are Essential Climate Solutions. Bag bans cut this litter off at the source: In San Jose, California, a plastic bag ban led to an 89 percent reduction in the number of plastic bags winding up in the citys storm drains. PBS is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization. So have at least 88 localities in California, including the cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco, plus cities and towns in more than a dozen other states and more than a dozen other countries. Often, the problem shifts. The opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests. Do single-use plastic bans work? - BBC Future California became the first to introduce regulations banning single-use plastic bags in August 2014. Did you just finish trick or treating? Thats primarily because more energy is required to produce and transport paper bags. On the other hand, were using thicker bags, which might be emitting more carbon and pollution into the atmosphere. ITS COMPOSTABLE! Thank you all for listening, and Ill see you next week. Eat one less meat dish a weekthats what will have a real impact on the environment, says Tyler. I also mistake plastic bags for food sometimes, and let me tell you, Walmart makes a delicious tall kitchen. Im your host, Ethan Brown. Major funding forPeril and Promiseis provided byDr. P. Roy Vagelos and Diana T. Vageloswith additional funding from Sue and Edgar Wachenheim III,and the Estate of Worthington Mayo-Smith. Throwing This Out Here: Plastic Bags Are Amazing and You Should Appreciate Them More, Trash Is Ugly, But Recycling Is Downright Beautiful. And those seven ethylene projects are concentrated in just three counties in Texas: Harris County, Jefferson County, and Brazoria County. Terms of Use | Privacy Policy. So Im trained in thinking about how People respond to environmental [00:00:32] policy and particular and the policies that I focused on have been around waste and food. In some cases, people start buying more plastic trash bags now that they cant use their grocery bags to store trash. Again, Im not referring to carbon emissions, Im talking nitrous oxide, particulate matter, carbon monoxide, smog, Sagittariuses, really bad stuff. Improperly discarded bags have polluted waterways, clogged sewers, and been found in oceans, affecting the ecosystem of marine creatures. So when you do lifecycle assessments of these two different types of material, paper bags end up being much worse on sort of their upstream, the manufacturing side, so its a bit concerning to also see the shift to paper. You can try, but nine times out of ten, its going to rip your original in half. Banning Plastic Bags Is Great for the World, Right? Not So Fast The New York State Plastic Bag Task Force, convened by Governor Andrew Cuomo in March 2017, found that a hybrid ban on plastic bags along with a fee on alternatives is more effective than a simple ban. Reader support helps sustain our work. Bag bans cut this litter off at the source: In San Jose, Calif., a plastic bag ban led to an 89 percent reduction in the number of plastic bags winding up in the citys storm drains. ITS PAPER. And then sometimes theres these added responses that are unintended. On The Pros and Cons of Banning Plastic Bags by John Stossel The first time you say your dog ate it, its a funny story, but by the fifth time, youre definitely going to fail first grade. Banning plastic bags is great for the world, right? | Grist A single mom, or someone working two jobs, is more likely to have to do her shopping in a rush on the way home from work than to go out specifically with a tote bag in hand. ETHAN: When environmentalists talk about plastic bags though, its often not about the production process, but rather what happens after we throw them out. Its like when your boss bans YouTube at work, so everyone jumps to Discord. Lets start with paper: the only kind of bag that is, in the most literal tense, tearible. I mean, look at all the kids roaming the streets looking for water after eating a single Saltine. If they dont get reused a certain amount of time. 4 Absent the fee, which provides the economic incentive to bring reusable bags to the store, simple bans tend to shift consumers from one type . Banning plastic bags is great for the world, right? And the most common substitute, paper bags, may be just as bad or worse, depending on the environmental problem youre most concerned about. TAYLOR: Yeah, well, Ill circle back to the three Rs. The Search for Long Covid Treatments Takes a Promising Turn. Its like the Snapchat of ocean trash its no YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or Twitter, but its still relevant. Multi-use plastic bags are catching on slower than their cloth counterparts. In fact, every region of the US has a different energy mix. So I wont rehash it all today, but if you listen to our episodes on fracking or the Permian Basin or the Haynesville Shale, youll learn a little bit about the villain origin story of plastic bags, and some of the many issues to which they contribute. Now a hybrid ban, where you ban a particular thin plastic or film plastic, as long as theres also consideration for the other types of bags such as paper bags, and reusable bags, and requiring stores to charge for those other bags. [bell ring] Like blueberries or trips to the bathroom, not all plastics are created equal, and single-use plastic bags are typically made from a material called high-density polyethylene. In accordance with the budge bill passed last year, New York State retailers will be banned from doling out single-use plastic bags, starting on March 1. So I am an environmental economist. Advocates for plastic bag bans often neglect to ask what will replace plastic bags and what the environmental impact of that replacement will be. I asked Dr. Taylor how we can account for the cost of alternatives when we create policies to address plastic bags. Hopefully its not laced with xylene! TAYLOR: Its a great question, I would say its a bit nuanced, because that was just respect with respect to the plastic bags. But that tiny switch makes it so people dont feel different or left out if they dont have a straw. Solar and wind companies are coming to rural Texas. In a rational model. Thats right, the solution to single use plastic isnt bans, its awkwardness! As part of our commitment to sustainability, in 2021 Grist moved its office headquarters to the Bullitt Center in Seattles vibrant Capitol Hill neighborhood. Over Half of the Worlds Penguin Species Are Threatened, A New Natural Gas Project in Mozambique Gives Locals All of the Costs and None of the Benefits. Never mind, that was underwhelming. But sales of garbage bags increased substantially and especially those small garbage bags that you know, are around the same size as the carryout back. Banning Plastic Bags Is Great for the World, Right? Not So Fast Do local governments get to say how these products are regulated? ETHAN: Why does all that matter? Saying go to your room doesnt actually solve anything, but hey, its easier than having an intelligent conversation with a six-year-old. Are Plastic Bag Bans a Solution? Still, many environmentalists argue that plastic is worse than paper. Thats a border shopping behavior. Two weeks ago, the Massachusetts State Senate passed a measure that would ban plastic bags from being dispensed by many retail businesses and require a charge of 10 cents or more for a recycled paper or reusable bag. But for UPROSE, that concern is outweighed by the negative impacts of plastic bags on disadvantaged communities. 12 Reasons for Banning Plastic Bags: Plastic Bags Are Made With Non-Renewable Energy Plastic Bags Use Up Lots Of Energy Plastic Bags End Up In The Ocean Beach Plastic Litter Is On The Rise Plastic Bags Kill Millions Of Animals Every Year Plastic Takes A Long Time To Disintegrate Plastic Is Harming The Ocean's Coral Plastic Bags Contain Toxins There are eight states that ban single-use plastic bags, and these are Oregon, Vermont, California, Hawaii, Delaware, New York, Maine, and Connecticut. Paper does have its own environmental consequences in terms of how much energy it takes to generate, acknowledges Emily Norton, director of the Massachusetts Sierra Club. Rough Draft 10 - Written progress - 'Banning plastic bags is great for [wild west sting] Once ethylene is turned into plastic, its not harmful, youre not going to get a disease just by touching a plastic bag, unless its March 2020 when every cashier in America was convinced thats how Covid spreads. ETHAN: After we drill and frack and insert other PG13 sounding term here, we have to actually turn our fossil fuels into polyethylene. Back to those three Rs we learned when we were in elementary school, the reduce the Reuse and Recycle. Or, another idea, what if plastic could be made directly from carbon dioxide that we suck from the atmosphere? Different studies say different things, but the point is clear: even though paper bags are much better for the environment in the disposal stage, the rest of the supply chain is riddled with problems. TAYLOR: Yes. Its what we put in the bag at the grocery store that really matters.. Any time someone needs bags, make a trip to the back to get them and have them wait. Spoiler alert: plastics parents got divorced at age eleven and it still isnt over it. ETHAN: The Sweaty Penguin is presented by Peril and Promise: a public media initiative from The WNET Group in New York, reporting on the issues and solutions around climate change. However, when you just have a ban, and you dont consider the substitutes, thats when we see the largest unintended consequences. Again, because this is what I tell people all the time. They increase their sales by almost 120%. In fact, eight states have gone so far as to ban single-use plastic bags, and over 200 counties and municipalities have enacted ordinances either imposing a fee on plastic bags or banning them. Paper does have its own environmental consequences in terms of how much energy it takes to generate, acknowledges Emily Norton, director of the Massachusetts Sierra Club. Even if bags arent the worst offender though, theyre a very hot topic and in my opinion, a really really interesting and misunderstood one, so Im very excited to talk about it today. Remember when I said petrochemical facilities use natural gas for electricity? How do we make polyethylene? It may not be big enough. Plastic bags not only destroy the physical infrastructure, she says, referring to the way they clog up storm drains and other systems, they contribute to emissions. And she points out that marine plastic pollution is a threat to low-income people who fish for their dinner: So many frontline communities depend on food coming from the ocean. Thats why her group supported New York Citys bag fee even though its more of a burden on lower-income citizens. The Pros and Cons of Plastic Bag Bans | Dumpsters.com Special thanks to our Emperor Penguin patrons Lawrence Harris and Brownies Central. A tweak could let quantum possibilities increase as space expands. Maybe call the manager over or fly the CEO in on a helicopter or pull the fire alarm so everyone starts screaming and running. The material on this site may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, cached or otherwise used, except with the prior written permission of Cond Nast. But University of Sydneys Dr. Rebecca Taylor says not so fast. So what was this paper about and what were your findings? Thats the percentage the Massachusetts Sierra Club has advocated for at the state level and when lobbying for municipal bag rules. Have a listen. the more right . Definitely not the intention. So I wont rehash it all today, but if you listen to our episodes on fracking or the Permian Basin or the Haynesville Shale, youll learn a little bit about the villain origin story of plastic bags, and some of the many issues to which they contribute. I hardly know her! But not just anywhere. Not only are there these human health concerns, but crackers and other petrochemical facilities are not located very fairly. New York's ban will take effect in 2020 but will apply to single-use plastic bags you can get at grocery stores or retailers. So that means fewer animals getting entangled over time which is good, but unfortunately, it also means plastic bags take a lot less time to become microplastics. There are also some challenges regarding the design of such a policy, as Dr. Taylor explains. The ideal city bag policy would probably involve charging for paper and plastic single-use bags, as New York City has decided to do, while giving out reusable recycled-plastic bags to those who need them, especially to low-income communities and seniors. Then Christmas is for you. Produce sellers in this busy agricultural hub 95 miles. Cracker? But advocates of these laws and journalists who cover the issue often neglect to ask what will replace plastic bags and what the environmental impact of that replacement will be. In 2018 though, 68.1 percent of paper consumed in the United States was recovered for recycling, which is a really impressive number, although its worth noting that paper fibers become weaker each time theyre recycled, so there are still limitations to that. And as you mentioned, tote bags can be actually more harmful. Winters are becoming less and less predictable due to climate change, but you dont have to worry because the second you put on a long sleeve shirt and jeans, youll be hearing Mariah Carey blast on every radio in town. Bags made out of woven plastic like polypropylene can be reused over and over, meaning even though there are consequences to producing plastic, you dont have to manufacture as many bags. Increasingly, environmentalists are pushing for laws that include fees for all single-use bags, and that require paper bags to be made with recycled content, which could lower their carbon footprint. In fact, it may not even be the most effective option. Now, a new law hopes to take things a step further by banning these: single-use plastic pre-checkout bags that are not recyclable and can contaminate compost facilities. But that understanding of each bags impact is not taken into account when we make a sweeping plastic bag ban. Thats right, nothing like getting high on your own supply. Not So Fast Like cigarettes, plastic bags have recently gone from a tolerated nuisance to a widely despised and discouraged vice. Still, many environmentalists argue that plastic is worse than paper. Ironic.plastic is still better than cloth, but it just has to be more than single-use. If so, awesome, although we should probably talk about why youre that obsessed with your tote bag. Not So Fast Advocates for plastic bag bans often neglect to ask what will replace plastic bags and what the environmental impact of that replacement will be. And what I found was the policies were very successful in reducing the amount of plastic carry out bags people used at supermarkets, it goes to zero as you would expect with a ban. the Massachusetts State Senate passed a measure that would ban plastic bags from being dispensed by many retail businesses and require a charge of 10 cents or more for a recycled paper or reusable bag. Like cigarettes, plastic bags have recently gone from a tolerated nuisance to a widely despised and discouraged vice. So is there anything you would suggest to policymakers as they tried to address the issue? The only newsroom focused on exploring solutions at the intersection of climate and justice. If we do that, well see less polluted oceans, improved public health, and maybe, for the first time in history, Polly wont want a cracker. TAYLOR: Thanks. Any time someone needs bags, make a trip to the back to get them and have them wait. But what if reusable bags arent good either? So some of my recent research was looking at to what extent do we actually see border shopping occur? NADJA: After much deliberation, Nandor and I have invited a new resident into the house. Thats where this gets interesting. [string music, inspired by What We Do In The Shadows]. Plastic is a toxin that stays in the environment, marine animals ingest it, and it enters their bodies and then ours.. Facebook, Follow us on But in terms of plastic, you are correct. ETHAN: Now, it is worth noting that a single-use plastic grocery bag takes about 20 years to break down in the environment about as long as it takes the average to break down. Banning plastic bags is great for the world, right? Physicists Rewrite a Quantum Rule That Clashes With Our Universe. And so when we think about these policies, were balancing these different environmental objectives. Have a listen. How Are Muskoxen Faring in a Changing Climate? Every time you need to process a new batch of polyethylene, you bring it to the facility and say, Polly want a cracker? [ding ding ding] Wow, that was a tough one. You would think five cents to reuse a bag would have a state similar behavioral response is five cents to not use a bag to have to pay for than plastic bag. Nearly one year after New York became the second state in the nation to pass a ban on grocery store plastic bags the law is going into effect on Sunday. And just a few weeks ago, California took it one step further, banning not just single-use plastic bags at checkout, but those smaller produce bags as well. The shift from one single-use bag to another single-use bag may improve one environmental outcome, but be offset by another environmental impact.. First off, I had a lot of cracker jokes, but more importantly being a heat intensive process, the production of plastic bags requires a good amount of energy, and it should come as no surprise that these petrochemical facilities typically use natural gas for their electricity source. ETHAN: But first, its time for Plastic Bags 101. What Comes Next for Venezuelas Oil Industry? And so I think, and subsidies can be quite expensive for governments to run or source to run. There are so very many variables. And so I was interested in understanding to what degree does a patchwork of policies actually lead customers to switch where theyre shopping. TAYLOR: Yeah, I think one thing that stands out, when we think about plastic bags, and when we think about sort of packaging, in general, is that theres this perception that its free, that theres no price, and that you can you know, youre not paying for the plastic bags that you use, thats not actually true, you actually do pay for the plastic bags that you use at the supermarket. Cities and states across the country are banning plastic bags, but those bans may be having unintended consequences. All donations matched! Very broadly, carbon footprints are proportional to mass of an object, says Tyler. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); A nonprofit, independent media organization dedicated to telling stories of climate solutions and a just future. This really needs to be top priority. 1999-2023 Grist Magazine, Inc. All rights reserved. So what this tells us is that people were actually doing this very green thing. According to the Ocean Conservancys 2020 Coastal Cleanup Report, plastic grocery bags ranked number 6 for trash in the ocean. For example, because paper bags take up so much more space, more trucks are needed to ship paper bags to a store than to ship plastic bags. Obtain that grain. But are bans on plastic bags or reusable alternatives like tote or canvas bags viable solutions to the worlds plastic problem? Scientists believe lasting symptoms following a coronavirus infection is not a single disorder. Not good places to be adding more polluting facilities. Not So Fast. Spoiler alert: plastics parents got divorced at age eleven and it still isnt over it. And thats not purchasing garbage bags. "Exactly what happens to a plastic bag when it is littered depends very much on where it enters the environment and the mechanisms that cause it . That's why any good plastic bag ban attempts to avoid a surge in paper bag use by also implementing a paper bag fee, ideally nudging shoppers to bring bags from home instead. And cotton, unlike paper, is not currently recycled in most places. The Permian Basin Hosts the Highest Emitting Oil and Gas Project in North America. Why Banning Plastic Grocery Bags Could Be A Bad Move : NPR If they were going to use a slur for white people, why not name it Karen or Wonderbread? People look at [paper] and say its degradable, therefore its much better for the environment, but its not in terms of climate change impact, says David Tyler, a professor of chemistry at the University of Oregon who has examined the research on the environmental impact of bag use. ETHAN: Given all this nuance weve explored pertaining to carry out bags, grocery bags, is there any advice you have for individuals who want to do their part? Even then, the question remains as to whether single-use bags are necessarily always worse than reusable ones. NADJA: Its perfectly harmless, Laszlo. ETHAN: Hopefully ethylene makes its What We Do In The Shadows debut in season five. Its right up there with Taylor Swifts jet, Beyond Burgers, and figuring out which soup is best for throwing at artwork. In May 2016, the New York City Council passed a 5-cent-per-bag fee on single-use bags handed out by most retailers. Now, for various reasons, political reasons, taxes are often not favored by politicians, because people dont like the word tax. When the plastic bags were banned in California, paper bags were still allowed with the feet. There was a 72 percent drop in grocery bag litter in the state just one year after it was fully implemented. Not So Fast Like cigarettes, plastic bags have recently gone from a tolerated nuisance to a widely despised and discouraged vice. 2. Even studies conducted with the purest of intentions depend on any number of assumptions. As such, many people suggest accompanying measures to distribute free reusable bags, and the tax could even be used to raise the money to make that happen. Facebook, Follow us on One of the most comprehensive research papers on the environmental impact of bags, published in 2007 by an Australian state government agency, found that paper bags have a higher carbon footprint than plastic. [slam the wrong buzz several times, then rewind] Okay, okay cracker? Quick Navigation for Reasons Why Plastic Shopping Bags Should Be Banned REASONS 1. bags, or maybe even stop keeping bags at the register at all. And so this was an unintended consequence of the policy. Its not easy being a green consumer, in part because there are these different dimensions of environmental impact. The U.S. is the number two producer of polyethylene in the world behind China, and in the U.S., 80 percent of our primary petrochemical supply is in Texas and Louisiana. CLIP: Its been more than five years since single-use plastic bags like these were banned from grocery stores, a ban advocates say made strides for the environment. TAYLOR: When I put my economist hat, the sort of first tool that I really think that policymakers should consider is a small fee, or a tax on all the different types of carry out bags. This episode of The Sweaty Penguin explores a wide range of issues including plastic bag manufacturing and looks at the shortcomings of some proposed solutions.

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